After 34 years of marriage, Barack and Michelle Obama are revealing the private bond that carried them through history’s biggest stages—and their most difficult moments.  In their most intimate interview yet, the former president and first lady open up about love, sacrifice, White House memories, family life with daughters Malia and Sasha, and the “ups and downs” that strengthened their relationship instead of breaking it.

It’s in the way his hand rests gently on her knee; the way she crinkles her nose at the joke she’s probably heard before; the way they can speak at the same time but somehow never seem to talk over each other. It’s in the details. After nearly 34 years of marriage, and perhaps because of the minutiae and magnitude of what that time encompassed, the love between former President Barack Obama, 64, and former first lady Michelle Obama, 62, is palpable.

“I don’t know if it’s been an equal partnership,” he says, “but it’s worked out for me pretty well. I’ve gotten more out of it than she has. For her it’s probably more of a mixed bag.”

Today she’s not accepting his usual self-deprecation. “My husband is always thinking about reflecting the light on other people,” she says, cozied up next to him on the couch of his office at the new Obama Presidential Center, located on the South Side of Chicago, where they met, married and welcomed daughters Malia, 27, and Sasha, 25, amid his historic journey from a young community organizer to America’s first Black president.

Now, almost 10 years after leaving the White House, and just days before the star-studded grand opening of the sprawling public campus housing his presidential library, Mrs. Obama has no problem singing her guy’s praises for him.

“I am so proud of how my husband showed up in that role, how he shows up every day,” she says. Here, in a wide-ranging interview, the two open up about love, “ups and downs,” White House memories and what excites them most about this new chapter of their legacy.

PEOPLE: As a couple, you’re stepping back into the spotlight with the center’s opening. How do you think the person sitting next to you feels right now?

MRS. OBAMA: He’s completely uncomfortable with this being about him. He was telling me, “I think there should be a little less of me here.” I was like, “Well, who should we be talking about?” He was like, “Gandhi.” This [center] is my husband’s vision from top to bottom. He made sure this is about the community, a place that our neighborhood could use and feel welcome.

MR. OBAMA: I’m very proud of what we accomplished, what our administration accomplished, but what I meant when I said that to her was I do want to make sure that people see all of the people whose shoulders we stand on. This is a group project. I think Michelle is surprised and proud that we pulled this off. She had a chance to go through the whole thing yesterday, and I could tell that it meant a lot to her.

PEOPLE: What does having this here in Chicago, on the South Side, mean to you both?

MR. OBAMA: There used to be a road that ran right through this same park. That’s how I first came to Chicago, in a janky old car with all my stuff on the back seat. You have the house where Michelle grew up, our wedding reception was less than a mile from here, you can see the hospital where our daughters were born, our first home is a 10-minute walk. I announced my first campaign in politics at the Ramada Inn on Lake Shore Drive. So much of what is precious to me is because of this community, the people who embraced some funny kid from Hawaii. They gave me a home.

MRS. OBAMA: Every piece of me was built in this area. There was nothing like this center anywhere when I was growing up. I get emotional realizing what this will mean for kids. So for me it’s incredibly personal.

PEOPLE: This is also where you first fell in love.

MRS. OBAMA: When we started dating, he was renting a crappy little apartment on 53rd Street from a friend. No AC. Windows were open. Saturday nights would be crazy. Baskin-Robbins was a place we’d go to get ice cream. He wrote about our first kiss being [there].

MR. OBAMA: Sitting on the curb. There’s a plaque there now. I don’t know who put that up.

PEOPLE: Artist Maya Lin created a sculpture here with two stones, differently shaped but of equal weight, representing your partnership. Is that how you see it?

MR. OBAMA: I knew almost immediately, and looks like I made a pretty good bet, that this was a one-of-a-kind woman with the integrity and character, smarts and values to make me better. Just being with her made me better, and she still does. And that she would [give] our kids a foundation that would pay off for them — and that’s in fact what’s happened.

MRS. OBAMA: We are each other’s counterbalance. The truth is, I probably would have been someone who stayed more put. I think I would have had a beautiful life here, but it would have been smaller. But because of who my husband is, he offered all of us — our girls, my mom, my family — a broader sense of what’s possible in life. He made me think more broadly about what I could do with this Harvard law degree besides be a lawyer. He gave me the courage. He was my ballast. He was like, “I got you.” And however hard it’s been, the ups and downs, he’s got me.

MR. OBAMA: And she grounds and anchors me. It’s worked out a’ight.

PEOPLE: What do you miss most from your time in the White House, and what are you happy to have left behind?

MR. OBAMA: Michelle wanted to make sure that it was the people’s house and as first lady helped open it up in ways that were unprecedented. But it is also very confining. I think it was Bill Clinton who called it the crown jewel of the federal penitentiary system. Because for security reasons and all kinds of other reasons, you are confined. It is the bubble inside the bubble. And frankly, I don’t miss a lot of the pomp and circumstance. I don’t miss having to wear a tie every day. What I miss is the work and the people, who worked so hard, sacrificed so much but somehow kept their sense of humor. There was a sense of camaraderie.

MRS. OBAMA: We had a fun White House. And it was our home. Our girls lived in the White House longer than they lived in any of the houses because they were so young. Fourth of July is Malia’s birthday. That whole celebration in the backyard, which we usually devoted to military families, was also her birthday party with fireworks and a yard full of people. Prom happened there, graduation parties, all the last memories of my mom [Marian Robinson], who’s no longer here.

PEOPLE: How are your 60s treating you?

MR. OBAMA: I mean, look, I don’t look as good as her, but I feel great.

MRS. OBAMA: Of course you do. It’s because you don’t dye your hair. You could have made the choice.

MR. OBAMA: Yeah, it’s too much trouble. But this has been a big project. I’m very glad the physical structure is now complete. Over the last 10 years, we have been working with young leaders through the foundation’s programs around the world. That’s given me the most satisfaction.

PEOPLE: Will those young leaders get to play you on the center’s new basketball court?

MR. OBAMA: We can have some shooting contests. I am not running up and down that court because I want to protect my knees and my Achilles. I don’t want to pop nothing. Michelle is way ahead of me on the whole stretching and flexibility tip.

PEOPLE: In the song “Changes,” Tupac rapped, “Although it seems heaven-sent, we ain’t ready to see a Black president.” As you sit here in your new presidential center, opening on Juneteenth, how do those lyrics resonate now?

MR. OBAMA: Obviously there’s a symbolism to the day I got elected. I had always said to Michelle and friends that I hoped if I did get elected, that that would change how kids thought about themselves. I hoped suddenly girls started feeling like, “Okay, whatever limits people seem to have set, whatever the precedents are, I think I can do something.” I wanted Asian American kids or Hispanic American kids to feel that same way, that we didn’t have barriers. I think that we did accomplish that. It was never realistic to think that because of one election, one president, somehow 400 years of history suddenly goes away. But I think there are kids who, growing up under my presidency, said, “Yeah, of course you can have a Black president. Why not?” And I’m confident that when we get a female president, which we will get sometime soon in my lifetime, it’ll become normalized, and that’s what we want.

MRS. OBAMA: The symbolism of his presidency wasn’t just about race — it was also about the way you show up as a leader, a man, a father and a husband. I think that what Barack offered this country was a mature president, a highly intelligent president, a selfless president, and I think that those characteristics are as important as race. I think he made this country proud in a very unique way.

MR. OBAMA: Thanks.